MB, I think they will win (tomorrow night is the next game) and lose in TB in game 6.
You can't win when your #1, #2 and #4 starters give up that many runs.
You can't win when your #1, #2 and #4 starters give up that many runs.
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Red Sox/Baseball thread
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 Surferdad |
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Posts: 1728 (10/15/08 09:58 AM) Member |
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JMost |
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Posts: 1218 (10/15/08 10:55 AM) Rondoism President |
I don't think they'll roll over, if by that you mean they've given up. Their own recent history argues too strongly against ever giving up - no
matter what the deficit and how bad you've looked.
On the other hand, they have to see what we can, which is that right now the Rays are simply better. And healthier. Minus Lowell, and with Beckett not himself, it's a huge hill to climb. The Sox are looking suddenly old to me. Timlin is all done. We all know that. I think this may be the last we see of Wake. He can't go the whole season without breaking down anymore and can't be trusted in the playoffs. Between Masterson, Bowden and Buchholtz the Sox should be able to find someone to replace him. Tek may be done too. I'd love to see the Sox find a young catcher to become the primary guy and keep Tek around at greatly reduced salary to catch 30 - 40 games a year (against LH pitchers) and mentor his replacement, but I don't think Tek would go for that. Even Papi has me concerned, but I think it's probably just his wrist that has slowed his bat. The Rays are for real and will be very, very good for quite a while. You know NY is going to reload in a big way. Theo has some work to do. |
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ManchvegasBob |
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Posts: 2243 (10/15/08 11:56 AM) Juan(abee) Hollinger |
Things change so quickly - we were talking dynasty with the rise of Ellsbury, Youk, Pedroia, Lowrie and the young pitching staff. Things can be fragile, and
short-sighted, as in "you're as good as your last win". The Angels didn't seem to give the Red Sox too much trouble, and now the Rays are
giving the Red Sox the same.
I mean - what the heck happened the last 2 games to lose so badly???? |
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ZekeMowattFan |
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Posts: 1035 (10/15/08 11:59 AM) 07-08 celtics17 Fantasy League Champion |
Well - they're two games. It's not the first time a good team will lost two games badly, and it won't be the last. Credit goes to the Rays, who are
a very good team and are tearing the cover off of the ball.
That said, you have to win four to move on. TB has only won three. I'm not that optimistic (it's a tall order to win 3 in a row against a team as good as TB), but I am more optimistic than I was in 2004 when we were coming off a 19-8 pasting by the Yankees and down three games to none. |
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JMost |
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Posts: 1221 (10/15/08 01:20 PM) Rondoism President |
If Beckett were Beckett (and I think it's pretty obvious there is more going on than he's saying) I'd feel a whole lot better about our chances to
win 3 in a row. One thing to watch out for if we take it back it Tampa is the possibility of Lester going in Game 6 on regular rest and then having a
"all hands on deck" approach to pitching in Game 7. Maybe even start Masterson, get 3-4 innings and try to get to Papelbon for the 8th and 9th.
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ManchvegasBob |
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Posts: 2250 (10/17/08 05:52 AM) Juan(abee) Hollinger |
Woooooo - the Red Sox pulled one out in grand style - setting a record for largest comeback to win (down 7-0 to win 8-7 on a walk-off). J.D. Drew is one cool
cucumber. It certainly didn't look good when Dice-K did the same thing that Beckett, Lester and Wakefield had done and give Tampa Bay 1st inning home runs.
Big Papi got a lot of credit for ending his home run drought and helping getting things started, Coco Crisp probably had his most resilient (10-pitch) at-bat in his life to punch a single to right field, and Papelbon and Masterson were the men of the hour when they needed to shutdown the Rays. Kotsay and Youkilis were huge as well. On to Tampa try to win the next one - it can be done - to get to game 7 . . . I think the Red Sox learned something from this game that Beckett can take to the bank . . . optimism is large for these defending champions, who refuse to go down easy. Eh? |
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Surferdad |
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Posts: 1729 (10/17/08 11:55 AM) Member |
I'm one of those poor souls who went to sleep at 7-0. (DAMN) Also missed the entire C's game. What kind of sports fan am I, I ask you?
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ManchvegasBob |
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Posts: 2254 (10/19/08 01:19 PM) Juan(abee) Hollinger |
I didn't think it was Varitek that was Man of the Hour - I thought it was Red Sox pitching, but I thought this Gordon Edes article was a
nice tribute to Jason Varitek.
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JMost |
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Posts: 1228 (10/19/08 04:29 PM) Rondoism President |
Thanks for the article MVBob.
I thought the quote by his father was interesting: "He wants to end with Boston." "He's their captain, by their selection. I think what he wants to do deep down is let (the Red Sox) bring in whoever they want as his replacement and spend three or four years with him, breaking him in right, whoever it is. I'm sure he'd like to get three or four more years with them. Let's hope this was meaningful to them." I think the Red Sox would love that if it were 2 years instead of 3-4, and if the money were right. If Tek isn't willing to accept a big pay cut though, I think he's gone. --------
What a wild and wacky team these Sox of the last 5 years are. They ought to just stipulate a 1-3 deficit in future ALCS matchups.
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ManchvegasBob |
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Posts: 2255 (10/19/08 06:10 PM) Juan(abee) Hollinger |
You're welcome JMost. I read that too, and thought no way would Tek sell himself short like that with Boras as an agent. But then, his current contract
was agreed to for less money than Boras wanted, showing Tek isn't all about the money and can do some thinking on his own. So we can only keep our fingers
crossed that Tek stays with the Red Sox in some capacity. The writing is on the wall that he's not an elite catcher any more, with his skills at the plate
eroding like they have. But he still wears the "C" on his jersey for a reason.
Did any one see Sean McAdams's article about the Sox potential interest in Jake Peavy - it would take some young pitchers and Lars Anderson - I didn't know who Lars Anderson even was, but it ends up being their top hitting prospect and big 1st baseman. They hadn't produced a slugger from their farm system for some time unless Hanley Ramirez counts. But then, Kevin Youkilis has stepped up as the cleanup hitter and lead the team in homers, and I didn't ever see that happening for Youk . . . Any intel on Lars from you Mainers (he played in Portland this past year?). |
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JMost |
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Posts: 1230 (10/20/08 12:05 PM) Rondoism President |
Congrats and Good Luck to the Rays. They were the better team and deserved to win. I'll be rooting for them.
Congrats also to the Sox on another successful and exciting season. Given the injuries to Papi, Lowell and Beckett they did about as well as they could against a very good team. |
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Surferdad |
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Posts: 1732 (10/20/08 04:59 PM) Member |
I agree it was great season given all the extended stints on the injury list. They came within a few runs of advancing to the WS; nothing to be ashamed of.
It will be wonderful story if the Rays can go on to win it all now. Reminds me a bit of 2007-08 Celtics. Plus the Ray are a pretty young team so they should be AL East contenders for years to come. Great job building that club. |
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yakyakyak |
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Posts: 957 (10/20/08 08:57 PM) Bigshot Genius |
Unless they get fleeced of all their young players by the richer teams in the league. Ortiz was a huge dissapointment in the playoffs. Maybe they should have kept Manny instead. |
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ManchvegasBob |
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Posts: 2258 (10/20/08 09:53 PM) Juan(abee) Hollinger |
JMOST/JUGS - I'M LOOKING FOR SOME INPUT ON LARS ANDERSON - HELLO!!!!
Thanks Here's article by Gordon Edes at Yahoo that I thought was pleasant perspective on the future of the Red Sox. Some random thoughts: if they get Lars Anderson in next year at 1st base, and have Youk at 3rd, sign an ace like Peavy, they should be knocking at the door again - no? Maybe have Lowell split duty at 3rd and at DH to give them a lefty/righty combo at DH between he and Ortiz, unless Ortiz returns 100% from his injury. Anyone think Clay Bucholz will be back on track next year, or is he going the way of Craig Hansen? |
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JMost |
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Posts: 1233 (10/21/08 11:14 AM) Rondoism President |
I didn't get to any Seadogs games in Portland this year, so I don't really know any more than you do MVBob about Lars Anderson.
From what I read in the Globe today, Lowell's surgery went well and they expect him back full strength by the start of the season. (Papi is also expected to have fully recovered from his wrist injury by next year.) I don't think they are thinking all that seriously about shifting Youk over and replacing him at 1st with either Anderson or Texeira, but both Lowell and Papi will be in their mid-30's - when more injuries tend to crop up - so I could see why people might think they would want to get younger. I personally believe that they were not that far away this year, and that with a healthy Lowell, Papi, and Beckett, and some upgrades at the end of the starting rotation, they will be as good as anyone in 2009. The reports (and stats) on Buchholtz have been great. I think he'll be given another shot to compete for a spot in the rotation. His upside is huge and the Sox need to get better at the #4 and #5 spots if they want to stay with the Rays. I don't see them going after Peavy if the price is two top pitching prospects and a CF- which is what was reported a few days ago. The article I saw mentioned Buchholtz, Masterson and one of the Sox CFs, and I think that would be sheer lunacy. Peavy had a 3.20 ERA in the NL, which translates to about a 3.70 in the AL. That's good but not worth all that. If the Sox trade prospects I think it'll be for a catcher. Here's a link on Anderson: http://www.soxprospects.c...players/anderson-lars.htm Looks like he only played 41 games in AA, so he'll probably start the season in Portland. It also sounds like he has big potential but still has things to work on before we see him in Fenway. He only just turned 21, and with Lowell signed for 2 more years, 2011 might be realistic - unless someone (Lowell, Youk, Papi) gets hurt. |
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ManchvegasBob |
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Posts: 2469 (11/19/08 01:49 PM) Juan(abee) Hollinger |
Any thoughts on the Coco Crisp trade for Ramon Ramirez trade? From Rotoworld:
The Red Sox get the additional setup guy they badly needed last season, though it costs them their outfield depth. Ramirez, 27, has pitched well in two of his three seasons in the majors. He had a 2.64 ERA and a 70/31 K/BB ratio in 71 2/3 innings for the Royals last season. His 94-mph fastball and hard slider make him tough on righties, but he does have trouble with lefties. His acquisition would seem to free up Justin Masterson for a move back to the rotation or to be used in trade, though there would be room for both in the pen. The Red Sox will now have to go get themselves another fourth outfielder, probably a right-handed hitter. Free agent Rocco Baldelli is one possibility, and they could always make a trade for someone like Franklin Gutierrez. |
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Surferdad |
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Posts: 1867 (12/14/08 12:30 PM) Member |
Yanks have both Sabathia and Burnett in the fold now...grrr. Maybe they overpaid for Burnett but he's still a very, very good pitcher.
I hope the Red Sox can get Texiera (partly to keep him from the Yankees). That would move Youkilis back to third base and provide additional protection for Ortiz. Not sure if Lowell will come back to form. |
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ManchvegasBob |
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Posts: 2556 (12/14/08 03:17 PM) Juan(abee) Hollinger |
And the Red Sox need some younger sluggers too (Texiera is 29) - Ortiz and Drew are 33 and Lowell's turning 35 in Feb, and they need some pop in that
lineup that Texiera will bring with none on the horizon in the minor leagues for BOS.
Here's a cheerful article stating that the Yankees still haven't done enough - but that's hopeful thinking in all likelihood because the high-priced Yankee pitching is bound to stay healthy one of these years. Does Tampa Bay begin a dynasty or were they a flash in the pan - the youth on that team is scary unbelievable . . . |
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